Posted: 15 November 2005 at 12:09am | IP Logged

Quote: Attacks on Arabs by Anti-Disengagement Protesters On July 4, 2005 150 orange-clad protesters opposing the disengagement plan attacked Arab beach goers in Qiryat Haim. The protesters wielded sticks, stones and knives and shouted “Death to the Arabs” and “A good Arab is a dead Arab.” The protest was called “disengaging Arabs” and “purifying Qiryat Haim of Arabs.” Many of the Arab beach goers were attacked and chased even though police were present there. Police did not intervene because, they said, nobody filed a complaint.

Source: http://arabhra.org/publications/wrap/2005/wrap232.pdf

So I guess they do celebrate the Fourth of July in Israel -- with festivities highlighting their own special brand of "democracy."

Anyone have other recent examples of "cleansing" efforts?

Source:

Posted: 15 November 2005 at 12:29am | IP Logged

The profit has arrived, and as usual his choice of topic, analysis and sources are all impeccable, I surrender and confess to all “our” sins.

May god smite “us”, Halleluiah.

Just too amusing not to respond to, especially while waiting for a PCR.

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 2:24am | IP Logged

Sometimes by violence, sometimes by manipulation and fraud:

Quote: Andromeda Hill is a gated community. and Jaffa's Arabs will be left outside the wall By Aryeh Dayan A lawsuit filed about a 18 months ago in the Tel Aviv Magistrate's Court, which since then has been proceeding sluggishly and far from the public eye, provides an interesting peek at the local reality in Jaffa - and also constitutes a microcosm of Israeli existence. The respondent in the case is the owner of the Andromeda Hill project, a giant luxury complex, including residential and holiday rental apartments and sports and entertainment facilities, in the heart of Jaffa. The owner is being sued by a group of Jaffa residents, mostly Arabs and some Jews, living in nearby neighborhoods. . . . Louis and Susan Williams are a Jewish couple who moved here from England in the 1950s. When he worked as an economist in the Finance Ministry and at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, they lived in Jerusalem and in Ramat Hasharon. About 10 years ago, they moved to the Ajami neighborhood in Jaffa, where they rent a house not far from Andromeda. "Three or four years ago," said Williams, "a rumor went around that the residents of Andromeda were complaining that the church bells were bothering them on Sundays. I got the impression that the people living there came to Jaffa but want Jaffa to stop being Jaffa. My wife and I decided to check this out from inside and went there, with our Anglo-Saxon faces and accents, to find out about renting an apartment. "A nice woman showed us the project and brought us onto the balcony, where you can see all Jaffa. Suddenly she pointed to one of the streets close to the project and said that based on an agreement between Andromeda and the municipality, Arabs won't be allowed to live past that road. I looked at my wife, my wife looked at me and we both decided to keep quiet. It was clear to me that this was nonsense, because the Tel Aviv Municipality can't keep Arabs from living even in Dizengoff Square. The problem is that they really promise Jews from abroad an apartment in Jaffa in an area without Arabs."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/641852.html

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 7:05am | IP Logged

And to find out that some Israeli Jews (maybe even most) are just as stupid and racist as many if not most people on this planet…what a shocker.

I was sure we were all saints.

I would truly like to understand what you aim to accomplish by such a weak post and thread name. Get the Israelis here hopping mad? Make me start with examples of European/world racism? Make me give you excuses? Convince non-Israelis that Israel is the seed of evil? Not worthy of existence?

I daresay you will achieve none of the above.

You should know the participants here are a bit more savvy than you give them credit for, slightly more sophisticated propaganda will be necessary…

In one week you have botched your propaganda attempt/would be dialogue (if that’s what your posts can be called) with about 50% of participants in this forum, and haven’t even gotten any response from the others, and we still haven’t learned anything of value from you, or maybe that’s how you like it, short, dirty and infertile? Be my guest (or actually Tivi’s).

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 8:48am | IP Logged

You're an Israeli Jew? You're certainly shattering sterotypes of the intelligent and well-read Jew, aren't you?

Quote: I would truly like to understand what you aim to accomplish by such a weak post and thread name. Get the Israelis here hopping mad? Make me start with examples of European/world racism?

But as you see above, you've already "surrendered," so I really didn't think you'd be back. Or did you think your lame attempt at sarcasm constituted a thread-ending rhetorical masterstroke?

Quote: Make me give you excuses?

Whether I wanted you to or not, you seem to be making them.

Quote: Convince non-Israelis that Israel is the seed of evil? Not worthy of existence?

I leave that task to Zionist politicians, religious leaders, and soliders; they don't need my help.

For example, consider this gem, contributed by the mayor of Ramleh:

Quote: "A young Arab man came to me and said to me: 'tell me how you want us to vote for you when you have a billboard saying ‘The people are with the Golan10’? I stopped him from speaking and said 'Listen, I came here to discuss issues such as water provision, sanitation, and infrastructure. If the Arab sector wants to confront me with national matters I will be the first one to shoot them. Each time that I shoot an Arab I will remain alive and they will not, so get out of my face.'"

What could I possibly say that would condemn Zionists more effectively than they condemn themselves?

Quote: You should know the participants here are a bit more savvy than you give them credit for, slightly more sophisticated propaganda will be necessary…

Yep, you're just dripping with sophistication, aren't you.

Quote: In one week you have botched your propaganda attempt/would be dialogue (if that’s what your posts can be called) with about 50% of participants in this forum,

The bigots benifit just from my presence. It's good for you to be reminded that the warm embrace of the like-minded doesn't change the underlying realities, whether you personally are ready to face them or not.

Quote: and haven’t even gotten any response from the others, and we still haven’t learned anything of value from you, or maybe that’s how you like it, short, dirty and infertile? Be my guest (or actually Tivi’s).

You've learned that your head-in-the-sand attitude towards facts and proclivity to verbal abuse doesn't silence everybody who disagrees with you. That's a life lesson you can thank me for later.

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 11:10am | IP Logged

Not unexpectedly, you are a master at digging your own grave.

Yes, I surrender, I admit that there is a problem of racism and discrimination in Israeli society, like discrimination elsewhere it has its explanations but not an acceptable excuse and must be dealt with. We’ve been over that topic here before you graciously and so crudely attempted to make this point. So, where do we go from here? Is that your best punch?

I’m stupid, I “surrender” (your need to view an internet exchange or attempted discussion as a street fight certainly gives insight into your motivation), I’m certainly unsophisticated, I’m a bigot (and so are other forum members). Did I miss anything?

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 12:34pm | IP Logged

You missed the fact that you were the one who introduced the term "surrender" into the discussion. I used it as a direct quote from your post. Hence, if you feel that term implies that the person using it is looking for a fight, you are indicting yourself.

Quote: Not unexpectedly, you are a master at digging your own grave.

I don't get this. Is it a threat? How am I digging my own grave?

Quote: Yes, I surrender, I admit that there is a problem of racism and discrimination in Israeli society, like discrimination elsewhere it has its explanations but not an acceptable excuse and must be dealt with. We’ve been over that topic here before you graciously and so crudely attempted to make this point. So, where do we go from here? Is that your best punch?

Well, since I'm not in a street fight, I don't really think of this in terms of having a "best punch."

What I'm interested in is not Israeli racism in general, but specific acts and strategies, by the government or others, to try and maintain or complete the work of 1947. I'd like the thread to gather examples of the many different ways in which the Jewish population tries to get rid of the non-Jewish population; the practical response to what they call "the demographic threat."

If you have any examples of these efforts, that would be great. On the other hand, if you cannot participate except to justify Zionism and all its doings, you might contribute some counterexamples of projects that promote integration and the return of Palestinians to their land (which, although rare at the international level, happens more frequently at the local level -- though of course never at the same frequency as lands are taken away.)

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 2:25pm | IP Logged

I’ve been through this interesting yet futile historical debate with you before (counter to your claim) and find it queer that you would suggest doing it again, I guess you think your good at it.

Israelis, Palestinians and surrounding Arab nations have made many mistake and committed acts that are less than admirable during the more than 100 years of dispute. “Establishing” the historical facts  is an interesting exercise in historical analysis yet does not change the current circumstances, does not deny Israel’s or Palestinians right to self-determination and does not change the practically universally accepted (even in Israel and Palestine) solution to the dispute (which does not include a bi-national state).

So I’ll spare us the barrage of “Zionist leader” quotes and the rest of the silly game of “proving” who the “bad guy” is by not playing.

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 2:47pm | IP Logged

Quote: So I’ll spare us the barrage of “Zionist leader” quotes and the rest of the silly game of “proving” who the “bad guy” is by not playing.

Since you first claimed you weren't playing a half-a-dozen or so posts ago, I'll believe that when I see it.

Also, you apparently failed to notice that I am soliciting, and offering, information about the present or the very recent past, not about Israel's founding. Israel's ethnic cleansing in the 40s is far too well-documented to be an interesting subject for debate. I'm talking about what is happening right now -- but apparently you've already consigned that to the memory-hole along with anything else that might trouble your conscience.

Posted: 20 November 2005 at 7:52pm | IP Logged

"Soliciting"?

Why don't you go "solicit" in the Pigalle? I'm sure you'd be able to collect at least as many examples of racism / discrimination / ethnic segregation, you name it, in La Belle France as you do here, with much smaller effort...  This - of course if you really had any interest in the human condition, rather than in Israel-Bashing.